We've had this discussion before but basically Firefighter thinks that if there were no God, the world, with people being inherently evil, would collapse into a hellish state of rape and pillage. (You mean we're not already there?)
This whole discussion comes at an opportune time because I'm reading this book called "Nonzero: The Logic of Human Destiny" by Robert Wright, which sort of deals with why humans do what they do, where their morals come from etc.
Basically what Wright says is that culture evolves over time as a result of zero-sum games or win-win/lose-lose situations. From the beginning of human hunter-gatherer tribes, it's been easier to survive if we cooperate. It takes more than one man or one family to kill a whale, giraffe, etc. So we team up and help each other out because if I help you out by giving you some of my whale blubber, I can go to you next time I'm out of blubber and you have plenty.
From this basic concept, society has evolved to what it is today, albeit much more complex. So you can see why it is in my best interest to be good to everyone else in society. It all boils down to the "golden rule," do unto others... In the blog Firefighter mentioned, the author actually mentions the Golden Rule but seems to think this is something that God gave us.
Coincidentally, every major religion in the world, if not every religion in general, has an equivalent to the golden rule. Because this rule is almost universal, I think it's easy to argue that it is a product of human social nature and not a product of some God in the sky. I mean, if the Christian God and the Islamic God are at odds and suggesting followers of one kill the other, why do they both use this Golden Rule? Also, most animal communities operate on the same principle, hence packs of dogs, flocks of sheep, etc.
I oversimplified some things there so some of you are probably saying "what about freeloaders?" "If our nature is to be good to each other, why do people kill other people?" Well, this good nature, of course, is not the only one we have. We have other animal instincts too. Just like lions get angry and defend their territory, so do we. Just like some monkeys try to be lazy and cheat the system, so do we.
But you can't live a "lustful life of sex, money and everything else bad" like Firefighter suggests and hope to live long, which after all, is what human nature drives us to do, live and procreate. Sure, if suddenly today it was announced there was no God, Firefighter could run out and rob a bank, rape a few women and get tanked on malt liquor. But society being the way it is, this would be quickly corrected by someone who is bigger and more powerful than him.
So we have morals because it is beneficial for survival, i.e. we can get help harpooning a whale for food. Those morals are enforced by the people to whom we give power. We give that power away, again to protect our own hides. God has nothing to do with it.
So this means we can put together a "kill the retaed and freeloader" movment to better mankind?
ReplyDeleteDo you believe every book you read?
Years ago the most intelligant people in the world thought the world was flat.
With only death in the future, one last wild ride sounds like fun! F-it lets end it all now, are you game M3, FTW!!!
You should have spent your money on educating stupid Africans instead of that worthless book. You could have fed a family of starving Latin Americans for a month for the price of that book.
ReplyDeleteRegarding your first comment, it wouldn't be the first time it's been tried. It's called "compulsory sterilization." The United States tried it once, Sweden is pretty famous for doing it too. They basically forced mentally and physically handicapped people to get sterilized so they couldn't reproduce. Apparently most people think it's not "ethical."
ReplyDeleteAnd no, I don't believe every book I read, I evaluate everything I read and come to an informed conclusion of its validity.
ReplyDeleteCompulsory Sterilization
ReplyDeleteAnd I got the book from the library, so I didn't pay anything for it. You should try it sometime. I also rode my bike to the library so I didn't burn any fossil fuels getting there.
ReplyDeleteYes, years ago smart people thought the world was flat, they also believed in God, ghosts, dragons, healers, etc. We continue to learn new things every day. Someday we'll all realize that we're just a giant ant farm experiment for an extraterrestrial civilization looking for the meaning of life.